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California Gov. Gavin Newsom traveled to Tennessee to appear on a podcast hosted by Shawn Ryan, a conservative, tattooed former Navy SEAL, who opened the show by handing Newsom a Sig Sauer pistol that the Democratic governor proclaimed "too cool."
Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro (D) joined a podcast a few days later hosted by Ted Nugent, the pro-Trump activist and onetime hard rocker, to discuss his support for allowing hunting in the Keystone State on Sundays.
Former Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel appeared on the Megyn Kelly Show, hosted by a former Fox host, where he said that a man cannot become a woman - then joked that given the likely reaction of his fellow Democrats, that answer would require him "to go into a witness protection plan."
As prominent Democrats begin testing the waters for potential 2028 presidential runs, some have been explicitly rejecting tenets of liberal orthodoxy in high-profile ways, often in venues that might attract independent or pro-Trump listeners.
The appearances come as many Democrats, especially centrists, are urging the party to embrace what they say is a key lesson from their 2024 loss to President Donald Trump: that Democrats must distance themselves from the most easily weaponized left-leaning positions, and that they must engage with podcasts, radio shows and other media that are outside the liberal sphere.
"There is no question the party is starting to get the message. I'm delighted to see other members of the party speaking out," said Rep. Seth Moulton (D-Massachusetts), who faced a backlash from other Democrats when he complained after the election that the party was afraid to discuss issues like trans athletes. "There are a number of issues where we have lost the trust of American voters because we are not listening to the concerns of the majority of Americans."
Some Democrats say Vice President Kamala Harris, the defeated 2024 Democratic presidential nominee, should have delivered a speech repudiating one or more progressive positions - on immigration or trans athletes or covid-related school closures - that allowed Republicans to portray her as an out-of-touch liberal.
Harris did not emphasize these issues, rarely talking about trans rights or immigration reform, for example. But she did not vocally reject them either.
Recent polls suggest that Democrats' problems go far beyond messaging. A Wall Street Journal poll in late July showed that the party's image is at its lowest in more than three decades, with 63 percent of voters holding unfavorable views of the party and seeing Republicans as better at handling most issues that decide elections.
Democrats are still struggling with how to reverse that trend, and what mix of new policies and different messaging would be the most effective.
With the next election more than three years away, it is too early for the potential presidential candidates to campaign in any real way. But some Democrats who may be in the mix are already sending signals about how they will present themselves. Given Trump's success in painting Democrats as beholden to "radical left lunatics," that includes conspicuous displays of independence.
Sen. Ruben Gallego (D-Arizona) startled many Democrats in January by co-sponsoring the Laken Riley Act, a law deplored by liberals that requires federal agents to detain migrants charged with crimes like theft and shoplifting. Democratic Maryland Gov. Wes Moore, the nation's only Black governor, drew sharp criticism from civil rights leaders in May for vetoing a bill to study slavery reparations.
Former Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg told NPR recently that while Trump's effort to dismantle the Education Department and other agencies is "unconscionable," the agencies suffered from serious problems and Democrats were too quick to defend the status quo.
These Democrats may simply be acting on their sincere beliefs, and it's not yet clear which of them will run for president. But their statements are concerning liberals who say they risk caving in to objectionable, even bigoted, views rather than fighting against them, and that Democrats will never win by presenting themselves as diluted Republicans.
"It is never a winning strategy to sacrifice vulnerable communities," said Brandon Wolf, national press secretary of the Human Rights Campaign, an LGBTQ advocacy group. "People are craving leaders who are bold, who are willing to stand up to bullies, and who say unequivocally they are unwilling to compromise on values and freedom in this country."
It may make sense for Democrats to appear in conservative venues, Wolf said - but only if they stick to their principles.
"I can appreciate the politicians who are trying to bring truth and a dose of reality to spaces that are very often void of them," he said. "But my advice would be, when we enter those spaces, that we come rooted in rock-solid values, that we refuse to concede the right-wing frame."
Politicians also risk coming off as inauthentic if they appear to be striking a pose for political expediency. Political graveyards are full of candidates who seemed to be trying too hard, from John Kerry's embrace of NASCAR to Mitt Romney's declaration that he hunts "small varmints, if you will."
Some prospective candidates appear sensitive to that danger. When Shapiro appeared on Nugent's podcast to tout his success in ending a Sunday hunting ban, he framed it as a blow for "freedom" but also made it clear that he was not claiming to be a hunter.
"I want to be brutally honest with you here. I'm not a hunter myself. I don't pretend to be," Shapiro said on the podcast. "But I have so much respect for our commonwealth's hunters and sportsmen, and I thought this was the right thing to do."
Nugent - a right-wing commentator who rose to fame with songs like 1977's "Cat Scratch Fever" and has become an outspoken hunting advocate - rewarded Shapiro with praise likely to resonate with his listeners. "You are a Democrat, but you know what, Governor Josh? You are my blood brother," Nugent said.
A spokesman for Shapiro said the governor works regularly with people he disagrees with on a range of issues, a necessity to get things done in a politically divided state like Pennsylvania. Shapiro's appearance with Nugent, the spokesman said, was an opportunity that presented itself after the governor signed the hunting measure, rather than one he sought out.
Still, the moment illustrates the trickiness of this terrain for Democrats. Nugent can be an inflammatory figure; in February he posted an antisemitic message featuring photos of a dozen Jewish politicians, each accompanied by a small Israeli flag and a caption, such as "globalist political agent."
For many Democrats, these declarations of independence echo Bill Clinton's public slap at the rap artist Sister Souljah in 1992, an event that came to epitomize moments when a politician pointedly distances themselves from the party's liberal base.
Sister Souljah, commenting on rioters in Los Angeles that year, had told The Washington Post, "If Black people kill Black people every day, why not have a week and kill White people? … So if you're a gang member and you would normally be killing somebody, why not kill a White person?"
In an appearance before the Rainbow Coalition, a civil rights group, Clinton said Souljah's comments were "filled with the kind of hatred that you do not honor." She responded by saying her comments had been intended to convey the mindset of a Los Angeles gang member, not to advocate killing anyone. But Clinton generated headlines for distinguishing himself from the image that many voters had of Democrats as left-wing and countercultural.
"There was a hunger for a new and different kind of Democrat," said Emanuel, who was a top aide on Clinton's campaign. "The party is different now than it was then, but there is still a hunger for a different kind of Democrat - one that brings candor, authenticity and strength to the debate. Part of that is being willing to tell a member of your own party when they are offsides."
Clinton won plaudits for delivering the message to a liberal group likely to take umbrage. In contrast, many of today's Democrats are voicing their dissent to conservative influencers, worried that the party has been too quick to shun nontraditional venues.
Emanuel sat down with Kelly, a staunch conservative. "Unlike some of the loons over on the other side, he's a centrist," Kelly said by way of introduction. As Emanuel talked about education, Kelly fired off a series of questions to ferret out his views on trans issues: Should men be in women's prisons? Should men be on women's sports teams?
Emanuel said no to each. "As a father of a son and two girls, they are fundamentally physically different," Emanuel said. "That's just biology."
John Brabender, a Republican strategist who was a media consultant for the Trump campaign, said Democrats are trying to learn the lessons of the last election.
"They realize that there is a sizable part of the Democrat Party that is nowhere near as liberal as previously thought," Brabender said. "They are finding that there is this big centrist group, some of whom voted for Trump in places like Pennsylvania, that they need to get back. So they are all rethinking some of these issues at the very least, and figuring out what they have to personally own for their brand."
But they may find it tricky to send reassuring signals to centrists without alienating their party's left flank, he added: "The danger is, when you try to own everything, you own nothing."
As many Democrats continue to agonize over the last presidential campaign, many praise Harris for running a good race under tough conditions but ask if she could have fought back more on divisive cultural issues, perhaps delivering a "Sister Souljah moment" of her own.
Trump repeatedly portrayed Harris and other Democrats as un-American and culturally alien, using terms like "vermin," "Marxist" and "communist." Many strategists from both parties believe the most successful ad of the campaign was a Trump spot showing Harris supporting gender surgery for prison inmates, punctuated by the tagline, "Kamala is for they/them. President Trump is for you."
"What the Republicans did - wonderfully - was they focused on inflation, they focused on the border and they made the election about that," Democratic strategist Neil Oxman said. "They said we were too woke and talking about trans stuff and all that crap. And instead of us talking about inflation and the border, we only talked abortion and things that played right into Republicans' hands. We got caught in the trap. We can't let that happen again."
Many Democrats also believe Harris and other candidates were too reluctant to appear on conservative media outlets - and even on less political, more freewheeling podcasts, like "The Joe Rogan Experience" - for fear of attracting criticism from the left.
"You can't say you want to represent all of America and be inclusive but not talk to one part of America," Emanuel said. "For a party that brands itself as inclusive, sometimes we can be pretty exclusive."
Newsom's July 14 appearance on "The Shawn Ryan Show" played out against that backdrop, and Ryan praised the governor for just appearing. "It's been extremely hard to get somebody who thinks differently than me," Ryan said.
He then handed Newsom a box containing the pistol. "This is fabulous," the governor said. "The last thing people would expect is that I respect this gift." Ryan responded, "Really?" and Newsom said, "Yeah, man, I'm not anti-gun at all. I'm just for common sense."
Newsom - whose role as California governor makes him especially easy for Republicans to target as a liberal - has hosted several conservatives and pro-Trump figures since the election on his own podcast, "This is Gavin Newsom," which the Sacramento Bee described as a "Sister Souljah moment on steroids."
In the first episode, with right-wing firebrand Charlie Kirk, Newsom opined that allowing trans athletes in women's sports was "deeply unfair." But he sought to strike a balance, saying, "These poor people are more likely to commit suicide, have anxiety and depression. And the way that people talk down to vulnerable communities is an issue I have a hard time with as well."
To some, the Newsom-Kirk dialogue was refreshing and respectful. Others felt Newsom was being too accommodating of a figure they consider racist and Islamophobic; when Zohran Mamdani won the Democratic primary for New York Mayor, for example, Kirk posted, "24 years ago a group of Muslims killed 2,753 people on 9/11. Now a Muslim Socialist is on pace to run New York City."
Some liberals question why Democrats are being pressured to reject progressive positions while, they say, Republicans face little pressure to repudiate their own far-right base. If anything, they contend, some of the GOP's most extreme positions have been enthusiastically embraced by top Republicans.
Moulton, while welcoming the recent trend among Democrats, warned that his party still has further to go.
"I'm optimistic the party is moving in the right direction. I'm concerned we are not moving fast enough," the congressman said. "When you lose an election because of lost trust, you have to work hard to regain that trust. And while some Democrats are showing a willingness to listen more and meet voters where are, there are still a huge number of Democrats who are perfectly content with the status quo."
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